Intellicad a toy?

[CW]

I was on another forum recently (Turbocad) and there was a post from someone
that claims to have been fighting with Intellicad for a year. Said that he
had sent the company over 250 bug reports. Their response, according to
him, was that they were aware of those problems and were working on it. He
also said that he sent a letter to the CEO of the company detailing his
problems. According to him, the CEO sent him a letter saying that Intellicad
was only used by people that did very simple work and it was not suitable as
a serious professional product. What say you?

[Rich Webb]

Post by CW
I was on another forum recently (Turbocad) and there was a post from someone
that claims to have been fighting with Intellicad for a year. Said that he
had sent the company over 250 bug reports. Their response, according to
him, was that they were aware of those problems and were working on it. He
also said that he sent a letter to the CEO of the company detailing his
problems. According to him, the CEO sent him a letter saying that Intellicad
was only used by people that did very simple work and it was not suitable as
a serious professional product. What say you?

Well, I was on another forum recently (Intellicad) and there was a post
from someone that claims to have been fighting with Turbocad for *over*
a year. Said that he had sent the company over 2,500 bug reports. Their
response, according to him, was that they were aware of those problems
and were working on it [sic]. He also said that he sent a letter to the
CEO of the company detailing his problems. According to him, the CEO
sent him a letter saying that Turbocad was only used by people that did
very simple work and it was not suitable as a serious professional
product. What say *you*?

See how easy it is?

Intellicad is not a "company." There is a common codebase to which many
vendors add value and then resell. Therefore, there is no CEO of
Intellicad. Therefore, the post from "someone" is a gross
misunderstanding (at best) or just complete and utter nonsense (FUD).

Not surprisingly, some of the resellers are more responsive and provide
better support than others. BricsCad and Cadopia would probably be
surprised that theirs is not "a serious professional product."

[CW]

Maybe I should have spelled it out. I thought this would have been obvious
but, I guess not. He was corresponding with the company (I believe Cadopia
but not sure) had bought it from.

Post by Rich Webb
Intellicad is not a "company." There is a common codebase to which many
vendors add value and then resell. Therefore, there is no CEO of
Intellicad. Therefore, the post from "someone" is a gross
misunderstanding (at best) or just complete and utter nonsense (FUD).
Not surprisingly, some of the resellers are more responsive and provide
better support than others. BricsCad and Cadopia would probably be
surprised that theirs is not "a serious professional product."
--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

[Troppo]

Post by CW
Maybe I should have spelled it out. I thought this would have been
obvious but, I guess not. He was corresponding with the company (I
believe Cadopia but not sure) had bought it from.

Maybe he should enquire on this newsgroup first?
Basically, both TurboCAD and IntelliCAD are "real" CAD packages.
I have IntelliCAD 2001 Professional and it is functionally the same as
AutoCAD 2k. IntelliCAD will open ACAD 2k files without problems and vice
versa. ItelliCAD will import DXF files with AMG coordinates - x,y huge
numbers based on 0,0 somewhere in the South Antarctic. TurboCAD was
incapable of handling AMG last time I looked.

[CW]

I don't think that inquiring on this newsgroup is going to help him. I've
used Intellicad for a couple of years now. Currently using version 5. I have
been using Turbocad since version 6 (on 10.5 now). I have no problems with
either. I have no doubt that he sent the bug reports he claims. I also tend
to believe that he had the correspondence he claims with the CEO of whatever
company that he bought the software from. Based on his obvious inability to
operate the software, I think that they were tired of hearing from him and
were basically saying, "yeah, yeah, now go away". Some time ago, I was
working in an office with about 20 others. We all had identical computers
running AutoCAD 2002. There was one guy that kept having problems. Program
malfunctions and crashes were common for him. Thinking that it may have just
been his machine, over the next week several of us traded machines with him.
The problems fallowed him wherever he went while non of us had any problems
with his machine. Some people are like that. I have an idea that this guy is
one of those. I just thought I would through this out to the group for
general comment. Not that it will help him at all.

Post by Troppo

Post by CW
Maybe I should have spelled it out. I thought this would have been
obvious but, I guess not. He was corresponding with the company (I
believe Cadopia but not sure) had bought it from.

Maybe he should enquire on this newsgroup first?
Basically, both TurboCAD and IntelliCAD are "real" CAD packages.
I have IntelliCAD 2001 Professional and it is functionally the same as
AutoCAD 2k. IntelliCAD will open ACAD 2k files without problems and vice
versa. ItelliCAD will import DXF files with AMG coordinates - x,y huge
numbers based on 0,0 somewhere in the South Antarctic. TurboCAD was
incapable of handling AMG last time I looked.

[Rich Webb]

Post by CW
I just thought I would through this out to the group for
general comment. Not that it will help him at all.

No problems with that and doing background research among current users
of any software package is a good idea.

Non-specific anecdotes of the "some guy said" variety are awfully hard
to address, though.

Lots of people (myself among them) use (an) Intellicad regularly and are
happy with it. I'm equally sure that many others have tried it and were
not happy or just had the software equivalent of a black thumb.

That's OK; it's good that there are a variety of products and that
different people like different things. Keeps everyone from all showing
up at Krispy Kreme at the same time; some misguided souls even prefer
Dunkin Donuts. Go figure...

[jg]

Post by CW
I was on another forum recently (Turbocad) and there was a post from someone
that claims to have been fighting with Intellicad for a year. Said that he
had sent the company over 250 bug reports. Their response, according to
him, was that they were aware of those problems and were working on it. He
also said that he sent a letter to the CEO of the company detailing his
problems. According to him, the CEO sent him a letter saying that Intellicad
was only used by people that did very simple work and it was not suitable as
a serious professional product. What say you?

There's always one... I have had a couple of fairly off-hand responses too
from one vendor (and I wasn't nit-picking), but find that one a bit hard to
believe. I have wondered in the past exactly which level Icad was aimed at,
but mugs would really want less features and perhaps even better stability
than professionals. Certainly the version and vendor I am using now leave me
in no doubt they intend it to be at least equal to Acad, which has a
professional price and large following earning a living with it even if
there are better alternatives.

[MJ]

I use, and always have used (apart from when it was owned by Visio),
Cadopias version. I have found their tech support to be excellent. As for
being a toy? Well if it is a toy, it is a very useful one, one that has made
me plenty of money over the years. It allowed me to set up legally and
cheaply as a drafting service, something which I doubt I would have done had
it not come along.

MJ

Post by CW
I was on another forum recently (Turbocad) and there was a post from someone
that claims to have been fighting with Intellicad for a year. Said that he
had sent the company over 250 bug reports. Their response, according to
him, was that they were aware of those problems and were working on it. He
also said that he sent a letter to the CEO of the company detailing his
problems. According to him, the CEO sent him a letter saying that Intellicad
was only used by people that did very simple work and it was not suitable as
a serious professional product. What say you?

[Arnold van der Weide]

This confusion might have been caused by the structure of the IntelliCAD
Technology Consortium (ITC). The ITC is a consortium with commercial
members. This means that the ITC develops the basic IntelliCAD code (now
IntelliCAD 5.1). The commercial members
http://www.intellicad.org/members/memberlist.asp#commercial add value to the
code and sell IntelliCAD and are responsible for the customer support. The
development team has worked very hard over the past few years to stabilize
and improve IntelliCAD. So to call it a toy is almost like an insult to
them.

Kind regards
Arnold van der Weide
President
IntelliCAD Technology Consortium

Post by MJ
I use, and always have used (apart from when it was owned by Visio),
Cadopias version. I have found their tech support to be excellent. As for
being a toy? Well if it is a toy, it is a very useful one, one that has made
me plenty of money over the years. It allowed me to set up legally and
cheaply as a drafting service, something which I doubt I would have done had
it not come along.
MJ

Post by CW
I was on another forum recently (Turbocad) and there was a post from

someone

Post by CW
that claims to have been fighting with Intellicad for a year. Said that he
had sent the company over 250 bug reports. Their response, according to
him, was that they were aware of those problems and were working on it. He
also said that he sent a letter to the CEO of the company detailing his
problems. According to him, the CEO sent him a letter saying that

Intellicad

Post by CW
was only used by people that did very simple work and it was not

suitable

Post by MJ
as

Post by CW
a serious professional product. What say you?

[Bob Morrison]

In a previous post Arnold van der Weide says...

Post by Arnold van der Weide
This confusion might have been caused by the structure of the IntelliCAD
Technology Consortium (ITC). The ITC is a consortium with commercial
members. This means that the ITC develops the basic IntelliCAD code (now
IntelliCAD 5.1). The commercial members
http://www.intellicad.org/members/memberlist.asp#commercial add value to the
code and sell IntelliCAD and are responsible for the customer support. The
development team has worked very hard over the past few years to stabilize
and improve IntelliCAD. So to call it a toy is almost like an insult to
them.

I agree! I use Intellicad as a substitute for Autocad LT and find it
every bit as powerful as LT and in many cases ICad will do things that
ACad will not do.

[s***@yahoo.com]

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post Arnold van der Weide says...

Post by Arnold van der Weide
This confusion might have been caused by the structure of the IntelliCAD
Technology Consortium (ITC). The ITC is a consortium with

commercial

Post by Bob Morrison

Post by Arnold van der Weide
members. This means that the ITC develops the basic IntelliCAD code (now
IntelliCAD 5.1). The commercial members
http://www.intellicad.org/members/memberlist.asp#commercial add value to the
code and sell IntelliCAD and are responsible for the customer support. The
development team has worked very hard over the past few years to stabilize
and improve IntelliCAD. So to call it a toy is almost like an insult to
them.

I agree! I use Intellicad as a substitute for Autocad LT and find it
every bit as powerful as LT and in many cases ICad will do things that
ACad will not do.
--
Bob Morrison
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA

[jg]

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post Arnold van der Weide says...

Post by Arnold van der Weide
This confusion might have been caused by the structure of the IntelliCAD
Technology Consortium (ITC). The ITC is a consortium with commercial
members. This means that the ITC develops the basic IntelliCAD code (now
IntelliCAD 5.1). The commercial members
http://www.intellicad.org/members/memberlist.asp#commercial add value to the
code and sell IntelliCAD and are responsible for the customer support. The
development team has worked very hard over the past few years to stabilize
and improve IntelliCAD. So to call it a toy is almost like an insult to
them.

I agree! I use Intellicad as a substitute for Autocad LT and find it
every bit as powerful as LT and in many cases ICad will do things that
ACad will not do.

Obviously it's a professional effort, but I wonder how seriously ITC members
would endorse some previous versions now? Failure to acknowledge problems
gives the impression developers don't even know about or understand them. I
have full confidence in Bricscad (partly because they acknowledge what bugs
there are) but some past experiences with some other vendors might give a
"toy" impression.
That word powerful has perplexed me for 20 years of using cad, like reliable
used to describe an old car. I have trouble comparing LT with Icad when LT
does not have lisp, but maybe LT handles some more basic operations or big
files, better.

[Bob Morrison]

In a previous post jg says...

Post by jg
I have trouble comparing LT with Icad when LT
does not have lisp, but maybe LT handles some more basic operations or big
files, better.

I have an older version of LT (97) and can definitely say the the
current version of Bricscad is a better tool. Whether it is better than
the current version of LT I can't say, because I will never again spend
my money for an Autodesk product.

As a matter of disclosure, I don't even use ICad for my daily drafting
needs. As an ACad clone it is too cumbersome. I use VisualCadd for
daily drafting. It's only 2D, but much faster and easier to use than
any ACad version or clone could ever be.

[jg]

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post jg says...

Post by jg
I have trouble comparing LT with Icad when LT
does not have lisp, but maybe LT handles some more basic operations or big
files, better.

I have an older version of LT (97) and can definitely say the the
current version of Bricscad is a better tool. Whether it is better than
the current version of LT I can't say, because I will never again spend
my money for an Autodesk product.
As a matter of disclosure, I don't even use ICad for my daily drafting
needs. As an ACad clone it is too cumbersome. I use VisualCadd for
daily drafting. It's only 2D, but much faster and easier to use than
any ACad version or clone could ever be.

That's interesting, Visual is the Windows Generic cad isn't it? I looked for
it some time ago but from the 'net it looked to be fading away like Generic
did. Darn shame that was murdered by sleazy Acad marketing practices too.

[Bob Morrison]

In a previous post jg says...

Post by jg
That's interesting, Visual is the Windows Generic cad isn't it? I looked for
it some time ago but from the 'net it looked to be fading away like Generic
did. Darn shame that was murdered by sleazy Acad marketing practices too.

The Tritools partners just released VisualCadd 5 and are now working on
a patch to clean up a few bugs that got missed in beta testing.

http://www.tritools.com/

If you are (or were) a Generic Cadd user I could teach you the basics of
VCadd in an hour or less. Most of the two-letter shortcuts are the same
in the two programs, so the learning curve is very short for GCadd
users.

[mapep]

Bob,

Try General Cadd. It is a 2D program at the moment, but written by some of
the old Generic Cadd coders or at least users. I am a Land Surveyor and used
to use Generic, then Visual cadd. From what I have seen of General Cadd it
is as good or better and the coders fix bugs quick.

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post jg says...

Post by jg
That's interesting, Visual is the Windows Generic cad isn't it? I looked for
it some time ago but from the 'net it looked to be fading away like Generic
did. Darn shame that was murdered by sleazy Acad marketing practices too.

The Tritools partners just released VisualCadd 5 and are now working on
a patch to clean up a few bugs that got missed in beta testing.
http://www.tritools.com/
If you are (or were) a Generic Cadd user I could teach you the basics of
VCadd in an hour or less. Most of the two-letter shortcuts are the same
in the two programs, so the learning curve is very short for GCadd
users.
--
Bob Morrison
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA

[Bob Morrison]

In a previous post mapep says...

Post by mapep
Bob,
Try General Cadd. It is a 2D program at the moment, but written by some of
the old Generic Cadd coders or at least users. I am a Land Surveyor and used
to use Generic, then Visual cadd. From what I have seen of General Cadd it
is as good or better and the coders fix bugs quick.

I am aware of General Cadd, but don't feel that it has quite the
horsepower that VCadd has available. For instance, VCadd has Reference
Frames which act like ACad's X-ref's and the ability to set layer
properties like line type, line color and line width.

VC5 has has two patches since it's debut earlier this year and a third
is now being worked on.

I'm sure General Cadd is a fine program but it doesn't quite measure up
to my needs. Not to mention that VCadd is about $100.00 cheaper.

[jg]

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post mapep says...

Post by mapep
Bob,
Try General Cadd. It is a 2D program at the moment, but written by some of
the old Generic Cadd coders or at least users. I am a Land Surveyor and used
to use Generic, then Visual cadd. From what I have seen of General Cadd it
is as good or better and the coders fix bugs quick.

I am aware of General Cadd, but don't feel that it has quite the
horsepower that VCadd has available. For instance, VCadd has Reference
Frames which act like ACad's X-ref's and the ability to set layer
properties like line type, line color and line width.
VC5 has has two patches since it's debut earlier this year and a third
is now being worked on.
I'm sure General Cadd is a fine program but it doesn't quite measure up
to my needs. Not to mention that VCadd is about $100.00 cheaper.

Can't help thinking there might be a better place to look for alternatives
to Icad, than an Icad NG. Is there a general.cad or some such?

[Alun L. Palmer]

Post by jg

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post mapep says...

Post by mapep
Bob,
Try General Cadd. It is a 2D program at the moment, but written by
some of the old Generic Cadd coders or at least users. I am a Land
Surveyor and used to use Generic, then Visual cadd. From what I have
seen of General Cadd it is as good or better and the coders fix bugs
quick.

I am aware of General Cadd, but don't feel that it has quite the
horsepower that VCadd has available. For instance, VCadd has
Reference Frames which act like ACad's X-ref's and the ability to set
layer properties like line type, line color and line width.
VC5 has has two patches since it's debut earlier this year and a third
is now being worked on.
I'm sure General Cadd is a fine program but it doesn't quite measure
up to my needs. Not to mention that VCadd is about $100.00 cheaper.

Can't help thinking there might be a better place to look for
alternatives to Icad, than an Icad NG. Is there a general.cad or some
such?

iCAD does everything I need for drawings. I am a patent agent, so obviously
it depends on your needs, i.e. what do you do for a living? But no it's not
a toy. It is not the most user friendly app, but I have mastered the bits I
really need.

[Cadalot]

Visual Cadd was the Son of Generic CADD in Window format which was
handed around from company to company and not given a very good start
to life.

General CADD is the daughter of Generic CADD, written by 3 guys from
the original development team from Generic CADD and is going from
strength to strength.

New major version just released, plus they release add-on's and bug
fixes on avery regular basis. check out their web site.

You will find details and links from my web site
http://www.cadalot.co.uk

The only comparison one can make between IntelliCAD and AutoCAD is
with the full version before they bolt on ADT or LDDT. Basically you
are getting something like the full version for the LT version price!!

Alan (Cadalot)

Post by jg

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post jg says...

Post by jg
I have trouble comparing LT with Icad when LT
does not have lisp, but maybe LT handles some more basic operations or

big

Post by Bob Morrison

Post by jg
files, better.

I have an older version of LT (97) and can definitely say the the
current version of Bricscad is a better tool. Whether it is better than
the current version of LT I can't say, because I will never again spend
my money for an Autodesk product.
As a matter of disclosure, I don't even use ICad for my daily drafting
needs. As an ACad clone it is too cumbersome. I use VisualCadd for
daily drafting. It's only 2D, but much faster and easier to use than
any ACad version or clone could ever be.

That's interesting, Visual is the Windows Generic cad isn't it? I looked for
it some time ago but from the 'net it looked to be fading away like Generic
did. Darn shame that was murdered by sleazy Acad marketing practices too.

[jg]

Post by Cadalot
Visual Cadd was the Son of Generic CADD in Window format which was
handed around from company to company and not given a very good start
to life.
General CADD is the daughter of Generic CADD, written by 3 guys from
the original development team from Generic CADD and is going from
strength to strength.
New major version just released, plus they release add-on's and bug
fixes on avery regular basis. check out their web site.
You will find details and links from my web site
http://www.cadalot.co.uk
The only comparison one can make between IntelliCAD and AutoCAD is
with the full version before they bolt on ADT or LDDT. Basically you
are getting something like the full version for the LT version price!!

More like 25% of the LT price in Australia.

Post by Cadalot

Post by jg

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post jg says...

Post by jg
I have trouble comparing LT with Icad when LT
does not have lisp, but maybe LT handles some more basic operations or

big

Post by Bob Morrison

Post by jg
files, better.

I have an older version of LT (97) and can definitely say the the
current version of Bricscad is a better tool. Whether it is better than
the current version of LT I can't say, because I will never again spend
my money for an Autodesk product.
As a matter of disclosure, I don't even use ICad for my daily drafting
needs. As an ACad clone it is too cumbersome. I use VisualCadd for
daily drafting. It's only 2D, but much faster and easier to use than
any ACad version or clone could ever be.

That's interesting, Visual is the Windows Generic cad isn't it? I looked for
it some time ago but from the 'net it looked to be fading away like Generic
did. Darn shame that was murdered by sleazy Acad marketing practices too.

[Bob Morrison]

In a previous post Cadalot says...

Post by Cadalot
Visual Cadd was the Son of Generic CADD in Window format which was
handed around from company to company and not given a very good start
to life.

VCadd has also just released a new version. There a couple of 3rd party
addons (very cheap @ $50) that help the functionality.

General Cadd uses a dongle. VCadd does not.

[jg]

Post by Bob Morrison
In a previous post Cadalot says...

Post by Cadalot
Visual Cadd was the Son of Generic CADD in Window format which was
handed around from company to company and not given a very good start
to life.

VCadd has also just released a new version. There a couple of 3rd party
General Cadd uses a dongle. VCadd does not.

That would have a large bearing on whether I would buy a program. Life is
complicated enough without more plugs round the back.

[Cadalot]

Post by jg

Post by Bob Morrison
VCadd has also just released a new version. There a couple of 3rd party
General Cadd uses a dongle. VCadd does not.

That would have a large bearing on whether I would buy a program. Life is
complicated enough without more plugs round the back.

So I plug my small dongle in the front,

Cadalot

[jg]

Post by Cadalot

Post by jg

Post by Bob Morrison
VCadd has also just released a new version. There a couple of 3rd party
General Cadd uses a dongle. VCadd does not.

That would have a large bearing on whether I would buy a program. Life is
complicated enough without more plugs round the back.

So I plug my small dongle in the front,

This could get tricky. I don't have any suitable openings, should I talk to
Sophie or the brunette? But seriously, what if I have 4 or 5 programs all
paranoid about piracy and all want a port for dongles?

[MJ]

Go for Natalie, the brunette! As for multiple dongles, well I know at work
we daisy chain 3 dongles together.

It seems kinds a stupid these days, dongles can and are bypassed for most
major software, even software dongles are being bypassed. If someone wants
to use an unlicensed copy of software bad enough, they will find a way.

MJ

Post by jg

Post by Cadalot

Post by jg

Post by Bob Morrison
VCadd has also just released a new version. There a couple of 3rd

party

Post by Cadalot

Post by jg

Post by Bob Morrison
General Cadd uses a dongle. VCadd does not.

That would have a large bearing on whether I would buy a program. Life is
complicated enough without more plugs round the back.

So I plug my small dongle in the front,

This could get tricky. I don't have any suitable openings, should I talk to
Sophie or the brunette? But seriously, what if I have 4 or 5 programs all
paranoid about piracy and all want a port for dongles?

[CW]

Must just be something about Washington (I'm in Auburn). My main program is
Turbocad.

Post by Bob Morrison
As a matter of disclosure, I don't even use ICad for my daily drafting
needs. As an ACad clone it is too cumbersome. I use VisualCadd for
daily drafting. It's only 2D, but much faster and easier to use than
any ACad version or clone could ever be.
--
Bob Morrison
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA